Assessing Your Relationship with Alcohol: Sobriety, Boundaries and Mental Health w/ Kirsten Walker

EPISODE OVERVIEW: I interview Kirsten Walker, the Founder and Creator of Sober Brown Girls, a safe online community for sober-curious and sober women of color. During our conversation we talk about how Kirsten’s relationship with alcohol spiraled out of control, and after being unable to take her mom to a doctor’s appointment after a night of drinking, she decided to do something about it and quit in January of 2020.  We also talk about how alcohol is often used as coping mechanisms for untreated mental health disorders such as depression and anxiety, the joys and challenges of sobriety, and so much more!

In this episode we talk about:

• What started as an after work wind down activity, turned into an unhealthy relationship with alcohol that spiraled out of control
• The telltale signs of possibly having an unhealthy relationship with alcohol, and the shame that comes along with it
• The importance of taking a step back and assessing our behaviors
• How COVID caused a lot of people to relapse and binge drink
• Why it’s important to have constructive tools and activities to fill your time with after becoming sober
• The importance and impact of talking openly and honestly about your mental health with your children
• How in Kirsten’s search for a sober community, there were too few for Women of Color, which led her to create her blog and platform, Sober Brown Girls
• What it means to be “Sober Curious”
• The importance of sharing your story as a means to help yourself and others
• …and so much more!

ABOUT THE GUEST:

• Instagram 
• Website

RESOURCES MENTIONED:

• Quit Like a Woman
• This Naked Mind 
• Tempest: Online Alcohol Recovery and Support to Quit Drinking
• More Than Curious - The Ultimate Guide to Surviving Early Sobriety

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Transcript

EP.20 | Assessing Your Relationship with Alcohol: Sobriety, Boundaries and Mental Health w/ Kirsten Walker

Intro: Hey Queen, I'm Faith Alaribe, the founder and host of the Sista Circle Podcast. Around here we have honest and real conversations about our health, mental health and wellness, topics that deeply impact our lives as women of color. And all with the mission to provide the information, tools and resources to fill up our wellness toolkits, make informed decisions and to allow us to thrive in every area of our lives. So, get ready to be enlightened informed and inspired. Go ahead and get comfortable queen consider this your official welcome to the Sista Circle.

Faith: Hello, hello and happy last few days of 2021, you all. I don't know about you, but 2021 was actually pretty good to me in many ways, in many ways. But the way that it decided to wrap up, listen, it was utterly disrespectful. It was. It was. A COVID scare at daycare turned into a full-blown COVID outbreak in my household. I am just grateful that the symptoms were mild and that everyone who was affected, were all on a mend. But I'm not even about to lie; when I got at that positive test result, I was shook. Like I was shaking in my boot scared shook. But the more I just let go, I came to terms with the fact that I had absolutely no control over what was taking place, I felt better. So, I control what I could. I began and continued to clean and disinfect like crazy. I try to sneak in and nap if I can. And I'm just trying to say as positive as possible, considering the hand that I have been dealt.

Listen, most of all, I'm missing my workouts. I'm missing my me time, my Zen time, my pillow time, and so I am just trying to get a little bit better so that I can give back on my bike and I can give back well, and kind of find that sense of normalcy if you will, in my workout regimen. Anyhow, I was really determined to pull it together for this week's episode because it's really a conversation that I think is important to have, and particularly as we approach the New Year. So a few months back, I read an article that was talking about how pandemic drinking had been soaring amongst Blacks, Hispanics, and moms of young children.

So the largest increases in average consumption occurred among black women at 103% and Hispanic women at 148%. Likewise, women with children that were younger than the age of five at 323%. Mind blowing! Although, it's actually not really that surprising. Nevertheless, for this week's episode, I had the absolute pleasure of chatting with Kirsten Walker of Sober Brown Girls, a safe place for sober and sober curious women of color. So we have a raw and honest conversation about the effects of not having a healthy relationship with alcohol. We also talk about how Kirsten used it as a coping mechanism for untreated depression and anxiety. We talk about the importance of just being real and honest and open about mental health with your children, and just so much more. I really enjoyed having this conversation and I think that it has the potential to touch many, many people who listen to it.

So I wanted to shed light on the topic of alcoholism and sobriety, as I know for certain that it is a topic that has impacted the lives of many women of color. And be it our own relationship with it, a parent relationship, a partner, of friends, family members, right? And because alcohol is something that is just greatly normalized in our society, I'm not sure that we really question our relationship with it or with other substances often enough. And personally, I've lost family members to alcoholism, young and old, an addiction is something that actually runs through both sides of my family. So, I'll often explore and assess my relationship with alcohol is I have also had my own struggles with it in the past. And I know that some folks kick off the New Year with dry January. And maybe for some of you, you might want to scale it back a little in 2022. Maybe you want to kick the habit entirely, or maybe you just kind of want to explore what not drinking might look like. Either way, the conversation is quite timely and it is, oh so good. So, I'm not going to delay anymore, let's go ahead and get into it. Welcome to the Sista Circle, Kristen.

Kristen Walker: Thank you so much for having me. It's an honor to be here.

Faith: Oh, so wonderful. So listen, I always start my interviews by setting an intention. So for the women who will listen to this episode, what do you want them to take away from this?

Kristen Walker: I just want them to take away that it is okay to step back sometimes and look at our behaviors, look at our lives and see what we can do to enrich our lives a little bit more. And that's all that I want them to take away, because I think when you start there, when you have that curiosity in yourself, I think that it's a very powerful experience, so that's exactly what I want them to take away.

Faith: I love that. I love that. So, who is Kirsten? Where you from? What do you do? What's your mission?

Kristen Walker: Yeah, so Kirsten is, I have been in Richmond, Virginia, my entire life, pretty much. I have been here since I was five, so my entire life I was a military brat, if you will, my dad was in the air force. So I was born in Arkansas and kind of lived in Germany for a little bit, and from then on, I've been here. Just a country, family girl. I am married. I've been married for almost, I think we're about to go to 17. I think when you get past a certain amount year.

Faith: Oh, wow. 17 years.

Kristen Walker: Yeah, you just kind of just go with the flows, so I believe we're there. And yeah, I have two children. I have an 18 year old daughter and a 15 year old son, so mom of teens, three dogs, the partridge in the pear tree; all that good, good stuff.

Faith: I love it. I love it. I'm sure your household is very busy with the teenagers, I'm sure.

Kristen Walker: Oh my goodness! You know, every stage of childhood I think has come with its own challenges, but the teenage stage, I will say, has been the most challenging. But we're open family, and I think that that makes everything so much better, and they're just turning into these amazing young adults and just turning into my friends. You know, I'm still a mom, don't get it twisted. I'm really just really just really enjoying seeing them blossom into these young adults, so it's been really an interesting ride.

Faith: Well, that is so incredible. Yeah, it's all the way live at the Alaribe house with two little ones under three, so I can't. So if you can remember, yes, yes.

Kristen Walker: I can remember; a three year old and a newborn.

Faith: Yes.

Kristen Walker: I definitely remember those times.

Faith: Well, I wouldn't trade it for anything. It's a special time of my life, for sure. For sure.

Kristen Walker: Absolutely.

Faith: So tell me this Kirsten, what led you to get sober?

Kristen Walker: So, I kind of started my drinking career a little late in life in college. I kind of, you know you go to the parties here now, you know, in college and you experience alcohol. And then I kind of came out of college, started my family pretty young. And it just was at first a weekend type thing, just because that was a normal thing to do. That's what I felt was the normal thing to do. That's what I grew up seeing, was alcohol on the weekends and it kind of just progressed. It kind of progressed after I had my second child. I dealt with some postpartum depression; that kind of lingered. It kind of just turned to just depression as a whole and anxiety. And probably about two years ago, I started kind of using alcohol to soothe those symptoms of alcohol and depression.

So it turned out to just not be a weekend activity. It turned into an after work type of activity. Come home, get into this routine of you work hard all day, you come home, you got to kind of turn that work switch off, turn that mom switch up a little higher because you're mom all day long, even at work, but you got to kind of turn it up a little bit higher and kind of be on your toes. And it just started to just be one of those things that I use to cure or to deal or cope, if you will, with that anxiety and depression. And it just started spiraling out of control to the point of just throwing up more and blackouts more and waking up every morning and just - you start waking up every single morning with a hangover. It just starts to wear you down. And so, I had to make a decision about, am I going to continue this behavior? Or am I going to do something about it?

And it got to the point of one morning I had to take my mom to a medical appointment and I could barely get up to get her to where she needed to be. And that scared me actually. That was the first time I got scared about my drinking. And I started pondering, what if this have been like a house fire or what if it had been an emergency for one of your kids or your husband needed you and you physically could not be there to help them, support them? And that scared me into starting this journey. That's where it began.

Faith: So tell me this, when you were like experiencing kind of like the - you were in the throes of both your depression and anxiety and you were using it as a coping mechanism; were there members of your family, or were there like close friends that were identifying or pointing out that your behavior had been different?

Kristen Walker: No. I'm very skillful in hiding how I feel, so I did a lot of my drinking alone or nobody really saw the amount that I was drinking. They saw me sleeping a lot, but they just figured, okay, she probably is just overwhelming and need to rest. So nobody really saw it, nobody really pointed it out, and I too didn't identify that it was a huge problem because you see these things growing up and then you don't have some of these discussions about this behavior growing up. So, I didn't feel like that it was a problem or anything was wrong until it was - and until it was getting out of control. So, nobody really saw it. My husband, every so often would say, "Okay, I think I'm going to take a month off from drinking." And that would anger me.

You know, it would really anger me because this is what I would start to use as my coping me mechanism, as my medication. And I'm like, "I can't do that. I can't take away what helps me function," if you will. And even at those times when I would get mad at him, I would really think about that anger. And why are you getting so mad? Why is it a problem that you could not take a month off from drinking? Like, what difference does that make and why is it an issue? So again, at the end of kind of my drinking career, I kind of really thought about those times when I would get angry at him for wanting to take away what I love so much. And that just screamed to me even more that I just didn't really need it in my life to be that angry, to take something as toxic as that away.

Faith: So was it a challenge for you to like taper off? Like, what happened?

Kristen Walker: I kind of just stopped cold Turkey. I stopped right before - it's funny, cuz I stopped January the 29th of 2020, so this was before everything with the pandemic just exploded.

Faith: Girl! And you didn't have any challenges like in the middle of COVID?

Kristen Walker: You know, I was so focused on everything that was going on, and I had so much anxiety about everything that was going on because I was one of those people that was on CNN every day when stuff first happened. I'm watching these numbers pick up and I'm just out of control. But then I would sit down and I would think about it and I would say, "You were so much of a closet drinker. What would it look like right now?" And so, that really helped me as I'm going through this pandemic to not drink. Because as you know, so many people that were on their alcohol free journeys, so many people relapse. It was a high epidemic of people relapsing, and people just starting to binge drink. And I knew at that time, my family needed me to be on top of my game.

I've got two kids at that time that are now doing school at home. I'm trying to keep on top of that. I've got one that's surviving, that's doing it. I've got one that really struggled last year with being at home and I needed to be on top of my game. I needed to be on top of things to keep the house moving and running and keep some sense of normalcy going on. So surprisingly, it really wasn't as much of a struggle during the pandemic because I needed to be really on top of my game. So, I knew that that alcohol would have just made things... I can't even imagine how I would've been last year if alcohol had been part of my life.

Faith: You know, it is interesting; I actually was pregnant throughout COVID for the most part, so I didn't have no choice, no choice. But I also think that like for a lot of people, that did become like a coping mechanism.

Kristen Walker: Yeah, absolutely.

Faith: And I'm actually really curious to know, like, to just go cold turkey. And I know that you said that you had to kind of pivot and focus on your household and making sure that it was running smoothly. But along those lines, like how else were you managing your depression, your anxiety, like, that still is a real thing? So what [unclear15:28]?

Kristen Walker: Yeah, I do want to preface this by saying I am a type of person that is really big on harm reduction. So I won't say that I was perfect, because I think when you try to have this sense of perfection is when you kind of put yourself in this really bad position. So I won't say that I was a hundred percent perfect during this time; there was a glass of wine here or a drink here or there, where I would kind of fall back on old habits. It was never as bad as how it was when I was really in the throes of my drinking. But I did find so many other things to do surprisingly to help me with my anxiety and depression. I mean, I started crafting and girl, let me just tell you, I never, ever was the type of person that just sat back and said, I really want to craft.

So it was so funny as I'm going through and looking through different things that I spot these different crafts and these different ideas. And I ended up getting a cricket machine and started making - girl, went insane. I think that machine right there, it has helped me. I just have this emotional attachment to it because there were so many nights that we just sit there, just me and my cricket, and girl, I've been making pillow, I'm making all kinds of different things in the house. I know my husband is sick of me.

Faith: You all got family t-shirts and everything, right.

Kristen Walker: I was like, "You all going to wear these t-shirts, okay. These are made muah, you're going to rock this t-shirt." And they rocked them proudly. And I just started, I started getting into shows. It's funny, when you're drinking, you watch all these shows and girl, I couldn't remember half the shows that I had watched previously, so I just got into these different shows, spent more time with my husband. You get so wrapped up in this every day, mundane way of doing things, and even though we were all in the house together, we weren't spending time together. So we were able to spend more time together - if it was just feeding the kids at a different time and us just eating together or snuggling up on the couch and watching a movie together, we would really do different things there. We got another dog, so that took up a lot of my... we got a pandemic dog, so that took up a lot of time having a puppy in the house. And that's really, really how I spent my time and just journaling my journey on Instagram. Took up a lot of time, and those things were really paramount to me surviving the last year.

Faith: That's really interesting. Like, you came up with a lot of different ways to fill your time, and it seems like more meaningful time instead of like meaningless spent time, right, hiding and stuff. I think about for folks who might be listening and might be like, I mean, that's great. COVID allowed for you to do some incredible things and more thoughtful, but what were your biggest challenges that you faced, particularly early on during your sobriety? And when you were faced with these challenges, what were some of the tools or methods that you used that you really found to kind of help you through that process? I know you mentioned journaling.

Kristen Walker: Yeah, I think one of the biggest challenges I had was actually feeling my feelings. I think that I had done so much to numb them, it was very eye opening, and sometimes a little overwhelming to actually feel my feelings and not run from them and deal with them. So, I started getting, like you said, a lot into journaling. I even reached out to a doctor and I started seeing a therapist and that really helped. I got properly medicated on what I actually needed. Instead of using alcohol, I got the proper medication to deal with my anxiety and my depression. So, those were the things that were really, really helped me deal with those challenges of all of a sudden these feelings starting to get rushed and be actually having to sit down and deal with them. You know, a lot of meditation, a lot of learning how to be present and it being okay to not dwell on the past and not try to figure out the future; to just sit there in the moment and just be okay with not being okay sometimes. And just knowing that the feeling, it will go away, it will pass; it won't always be here.

I really leaned on one particular quote that Dr. Wayne Dyer and the quote is "Nature has never created a storm that doesn't end." And that's absolutely correct. You know, you think of - we had terrible rains this morning. I mean, it was torrential rains, and all of a sudden the sun just came out and everything just calmed down, and that's just how it is in life. You know, the feelings, they will pass; the storm will not always be here, it will end.

Faith: Yes. And that's so important to know, like so important to know, because when you're in throws of things, you're feeling like I don't know if I'm going to be able to get through this.

Kristen Walker: Oh yeah. And you may not know in the throes of it, you may not have any kind of idea about how you're going to get out, but something turns the tides and it happens and you come out of it.

Faith: Yeah. I think that the last time that I actually started to explore therapy, again, one of the reasons why I was wanted to process a miscarriage, but also I wanted to address some of the behaviors that I felt weren't in association with what I felt would be a good mom. I'm using air quotes, but you know what I mean? And so, one of those things was my relationship with alcohol. And so, one of the things that my therapist told me, she was like, "Hey you got to be able to feel. So why don't I challenge you to not use anything, whether it is wine, herb, or whatever it is, but just to like be in your feelings." And so, that actually extended for a very long time. And it was just really interesting. It was like, for so long, I just didn't feel because I didn't want to, I was scared.

Kristen Walker: Yeah. And we're programmed where society tells us to not feel. It's easier just to go ahead and just numb as much as you can and just ride the wave until you come out of it. So not feeling, that's the popular way to do things. That's how I was brought up, you know, that's what I saw to not feel.

Faith: Yeah, to not feel or to lose all sense of inhibitions. And it's just like, I think that when you feel it's not just pain that you're able to feel; you're able to feel like immense joy. It's so different, like a joy that you are able to be present for. It's very different. It's very, very different.

Kristen Walker: I haven't even noticed it in nature. I've even noticed it that I would numb so much that I wouldn't be present and I wouldn't even see the beautiful tree outside, or I wouldn't even acknowledge waking up and hearing the birds chirp. Literally, hearing nature wake you up and say good morning to you. And like you said, you just that... that feeling of joy that we're missing out on; it's painful to think about that there are so many times I've just missed out on just that beauty that's out there, just in nature.

Faith: You talked about like the hiding of the addiction, and so when you think about that, like to hide means that there is shame that's associated with it. You know deep down on the inside that something is wrong with this behavior, that's why I don't want anyone else to see or to witness it. I think about having two little girls. So my toddler in particular - oh gosh, little Mara. It was so funny. So, the other day I'm putting her to bed and she's like, "Mommy I'm want to read Llama Llama Red Pajama." I was like, "Okay, baby, go get your book off the books shelf." So she comes over and she sits on the bed and I'm like, "Okay, give me the book." And she's like, "No, I want to read the book." And I'm like, "Okay, all right, girl, go ahead, read the book."

She literally page by page is "reading the book." She's only two and a half years, but she's reading it word for word, using my intonation and everything. There's this one page where you open it up. There are no words. And you know, Mama Llama's running up the stairs because baby Llama has made a huge little fussy. So she's running up the stairs and I'm always like, "Oh my gosh, oh my gosh, what's going on?" So she opens up the page and she's like, "Oh my gosh, oh my gosh, what's going on?" And it just reminded me that she's paying attention to every single thing that I'm doing, and she's normalizing those behaviors. And so, it's kind of like the whole notion of like consciousness, like okay, being aware of your behaviors, that's one of the things that you mentioned when we first started talking. And it's like, okay, so I don't know, it's something about having these little girls where it's like, just having this mirror that's constantly up in front of you and you're like witnessing your behavior. And is this something that I want her to normalize? Is this something that I want her to think is okay?

Kristen Walker: Yeah. And by having teenagers, just seeing my behavior, it started to be a factor in why I wanted to just stop the behavior of drinking daily because that's what they were starting to see. It was beginning to be a pattern. Because as much as you think you can hide it, you're not really hiding it. You might put some wine in the mug and think that you doing something big, but they know. They know, they know just by your behavior. And I'll tell you how much they knew, and I didn't know they knew as much is when I stopped drinking. And they would say, "Mom, you are a lot calmer. You know, you're talking to us more," they were interacting with me more. I just go in my son's room sometimes just lay in his bed and just be like, "What you're up to? What what's going on?" So those interactions were starting to happen more and they were starting to notice it, and they wanted to make me aware of it.

But it's really important that I want them to know that there are other ways to deal with your frustrations, with your anxiety. We have conversations on anxiety and depression; it's just not me that deals with it in my household. And I'm able to recognize that now. And we're able to normalize that and not be okay, and we're able to work through it; be it therapy, be it medication, be it, whatever is necessary to help.

Faith: And that's so good. That's so good because mental health is something that we are just not talking about. We are not talking about it enough. And that's how it shows up. It shows up in addiction. It shows up in anger. It shows up in like so many different ways. And it's like, yeah, it's real interesting, but yet we normalize having that drunk uncle, or having that drunk cousin, but we don't really address it. We might make him go lay down in the bed in the other room and not get in the car and drive, but that's about it.

Kristen Walker: That's just the crazy uncle. That's just how they act. Or that's just auntie, that's just how she acts and how she behaves.

Faith: It's like no, auntie is depressed. Uncle has PTSDs, right. Daddy got whatever. It is just like, we have to do that. Because I mean, I don't know if you know this, but I read a statistic the other day. I want to make sure that I read it correctly, but it was talking about the percentage of African American or black folk between the ages of 18 and 24 that commit suicide. And the statistic was just like mind blowing.

Kristen Walker: I could only imagine.

Faith: And it's just like, why do black women have to feel like we always got to be strong? Like, no, I want to be soft.

Kristen Walker: I want to be soft. I want to be cradled. I want to be just handled with care and with gentleness. And so it's very, very important in this household that we have those discussions. When I first came out and was diagnosed with depression, you know, somebody said to me, "What do you have to be depressed about?" And that was a close family member that said what do you have to be depressed about? Nobody wants to feel this way. Trust me! When I am going through my lowest of lows, it's not fun. It is crippling. It's not fun at all. So, I'm able to have those conversations with my children and I'm able to run to their aid and to recognize certain things in them. And we're able to work past those situations and really get to the remedy that we need to get to. But yeah, we normalize those things up in here because I'm not going to have my son or daughter feeling like they don't know what's going on with them or that they're broken or that they're wrong or that something else is going on. And this could just be something internal that they... it's just like a broken leg. It's no different than having a broken leg. This is just something that's different, but it's okay.

Faith: And it is. Yeah, it's absolutely okay. I found the statistic. So the statistic is that in 2019, suicide was the second leading cause of death for blacks or African-Americans ages 15 to 24.

Kristen Walker: Yeah, because we don't have the conversations we don't need to have - and we're getting better. I will say we are.

Faith: I think it's a combination of conversations as well as the resources, because the reality is, if you don't have insurance, how are you going to get your medication?

Kristen Walker: And sometimes insurance is still and issue.

Faith: For real. I mean, that's real and it's sad. And people are out here struggling, struggling, contemplating living their lives.

Kristen Walker: I'm on one medication and the pharmacist and I are looking at each other, like if we didn't have the coupon to the insurance so the way to get around this - she was like, most people can't. I was in awe of it. And she said, "You'd be surprised. A lot of people cannot... they're prescribed this and they can't get it." They can't get it.

Faith: I know. And it is so sad. And it's like, I don't know, one of the questions that I ask myself often is like, how can I find a way to provide resources so that people can access therapy so that people can get medication that needed, right. And it's like, I don't know what can be created. Tell me this; I am curious a little bit to know. Did you have any fears about getting sober? Like, were you scared of anything?

Kristen Walker: Oh, terrified. Because you're taking this crutch away, and so in the beginning, you're like, "What do I do to replace that if I don't drink?" It's so easy to drink. So what in the world do I do to replace that? And it really took me stepping outside of my comfort zone. It really took the research to really find those things that could take the place of alcohol. And it's terrifying because especially when you go on this cycle of drinking, waking up, feeling awful about yourself, and you tell yourself that morning, "I'm not going to do this again. This is not going to happen again. I'm not going to continue with this behavior." But then you turn around that evening and you do the same thing again. So, it's really a fear of failure. It's a fear of resistance. Like, am I actually going to be able to carry on with this and do this? So yeah, there was so much fear and anxiety that I built up to quit, even, or I like to say to start the journey; a lot of fear and anxiety that was built up.

Faith: What would you say aside from no hangovers and things like that and being more present; what's changed most since you've gotten sober?

Kristen Walker: I think what's changed most is I'm definitely more of an advocate for myself. I try to get out of this whole people pleasing and not creating boundaries. And now I don't people please. And I have boundaries up every which way. And I think that that's been so instrumental. It's been so productive to just create these boundaries that when I need time for myself, I take that time for myself. When I need to say no to something I say no to something. And it's been very empowering to learn how to create those boundaries. It's one of the things that I do the most research on now is being okay with saying no, with creating those boundaries with individuals. Has it changed some relationships in my life? Yeah. It's changed some friendships. It's changed - some hard conversations needed to be had. But I think I'm definitely better for it. Definitely more healthy for it. So I'd say the boundary creation has been one of the biggest changes that I've had.

Faith: Listen, boundaries changed lives, for sure. Boundaries changed lives, for sure. So when you were kind of like, I'm going to say not in the throws, but when you were just in your addiction; how long were you in your addiction and did it have any implications on your health at all?

Kristen Walker: Yeah, so I was say it was about a good three years that things were, I like to say a bit out of control. And yeah, I'm definitely more healthier for it because I take the time to care for myself more now. That's even as simple as making doctor's appointments, or dentist appointments, or eye appointments. I just let all those things slide under the rug. I was so excited this year. I turned 40 and I was so excited. Like two weeks ago I had my mammogram, I had my first mammogram.

Faith: Yes, get them [unclear34:53], girl.

Kristen Walker: I'm a grown woman. Just to have my boob smashed up, it was just the most amazing thing. And just some things have been discovered. I've been able to take care of some things that - and still, just healing my body and taking care of things that need to be taken care of. And it just feels so good to just make those appointments and just check in on myself and do the things that I need to do with my therapists with managing my medication. Those things have been just amazing. So yeah, I just felt like such a grown woman taking care of myself.

Faith: Yes, good for you and happy belated.

Kristen Walker: Yes. Thank you. Thank you.

Faith: Cheers to the big 4-0. So one of the terms that I keep on hearing is "sober curious" - what exactly is sober curious? I think I might be sober curious, but I'm kind of curious to know how would you define it.

Kristen Walker: I kind of define sober curious as just taking stock of your drinking habits. That's just what - just asking the question, you know, does this benefit me? Is it helping the situation? How much is going on? How do you feel when you drink or how do you feel when you don't drink? Like, just taking accountability for the behavior and the relationship with alcohol is how I look at it.

Faith: And so what about the folks who are like, okay, you know what, Kirsten then hit a nerve, and I really think that this is something that I want to explore. What steps would you suggest that someone take to explore a journey towards sobriety?

Kristen Walker: Yeah, I think there are some magnificent books out there that are really good. I know one of my favorites is Quit Like A Woman by Holly Whitaker. It’s one of the first books that I read. And I think things like that are just looking at... that book really meant a lot to me because it really looked at just women, women and how we are somewhat targeted by big alcohol. You know, especially mothers. You have this definitely, this huge mommy wine culture that goes on. Another one that really, really, really, really knocked my socks off was This Naked Mind. And with This Naked Mind, it really looks at the brain and it looks at your body and what alcohol does to the brain and to the body ,and why it is so hard to stop the behavior, you know, to quit drinking.

It's not an issue of morality. You're not a bad person because you can't stop drinking. It's literally some changes that are going on within the body and within the brain. And so, a lot of those books; I listen through audio book, I've got the physical book, you know, I just kind of dig into that. And one of the things is just... I'd always tell people, just do the research on the effects alcohol has on the body, you'd be surprised at what it does soon as it hits your tongue, and the fact that our bodies, they're not huge fans of alcohol.

Faith: No, not at all.

Kristen Walker: Yeah, so just kind of starting to do that research is really where I tell people to really, if they are so precarious to really get started at.

Faith: Yeah. I'm happy that you may mention of that because I think that for a lot of times people think that, "Oh, the only way that you can stop is if you go to AA." And it's just like, I want folks to know about different resources that are out there that may be counter to their belief system or just might be a different vibe. And I think especially for black women or just other women of color, to be able to find spaces in which they can feel confident and comfortable, which actually leads me to my next question. And that's about the community that you've actually created through your blog. And so, can you talk to us a little bit about it?

Kristen Walker: Yeah. So initially when I started this journey, I wanted to find community. I wanted to tell somebody, just scream it to somebody that I've got this dependency on alcohol, it's unhealthy, and I want to stop. I want to just go into harm reduction and really stop this behavior. And so, looking around, I started to look on Instagram and I noticed this huge, huge, sober community on Instagram, which was amazing. I really connected with so many of amazing, beautiful women. But the one thing that I noticed right off the bat was a lot of them did not look like me. And so I said, "Okay, wait a minute. It's got to be more out there that feel the way that I feel." When you look at all these accounts and you look at all these women and even authors of books, they're all white women.

And so I wanted to just create this community that I knew was out there. I wanted to create this safe place for women of color to come to. Rather you are sober, curious, or you're just all in out sober, to just come and just - this is a safe place for you. This is somebody looks like you that is questioning their relationship with alcohol. It's fine. We can do this together. We can go through this together. And that's where Sober Brown Girls kind of was born from; just from me sharing my experience and me just wanting to create a safe place for other women of color.

Faith: That's so beautiful. Tell me, is it, or was it hard to begin to tell your story?

Kristen Walker: It was, yeah, because there was so much shame that I had at the beginning, and so it was hard. But when I started seeing all these other women out there that were of sharing their stories, it made it so much easier because I think there's so much power in us sharing our stories and sharing our truth. And so with that, I knew that my story could be the beginning of someone else's story. So, it made it even easier for me to share what I was going through, rather that being good or bad, because every post is not fluff. Every post is not all funny or every post is not me smiling. I really get into the depths of how you feel some days. Some days are just more rockier than others. And so, it just got easier and easier to share my story when I realized that this could really impact other people's lives.

Faith: That is so beautiful. I think that from mental health, to addiction, to fertility issues, all sorts of things, you know, we go through so much. And what I will say is one of the main reasons why I created this platform was to make sure that women did not feel alone in those experiences that are often woven in shame and considered to be taboo. And it's like, I will say this though. It is so scary at times because it's like - I don't know if it's like a vulnerability, like hangover because you share so much of yourself and that it's impacting somebody. You know it. But like the process and just facing it face on and sharing so much of yourself can be so terrifying.

Kristen Walker: Yes, it can. Yes, it can. Especially on those first few posts where I would get real about you all. It's rough out here right now. I don't know. You know, I don't know. And it's hard because social media sometimes, especially with social media, especially with Instagram, it's always normalized to put your best foot forward. Nobody wantss to see the bad or the negative, so it's hard to really put yourself out there. But then every time that I did, I'm always shocked at the support and the love that I get. And the thank yous that I get for just, "Girl, I thought I was just the only one that was feeling that way." Or, "Yeah, someday are like this," or "Thank you for just being truthful and being honest." That's what people need. That's what we all need is truth and honesty.

Faith: Absolutely. And just realness and authenticity. And I think that that's one of the things that stood out most to me about you is just like, oh, this Queen is over here authentic, being real and did it in the middle of COVID, and so that's, that's another level of resilience, so kudos to you.

Kristen Walker: Thank you so much.

Faith: Yes. And all that you've created, and even if it just makes someone pause and reflect for just a moment, that's so worth it.

Kristen Walker: I get excited when people just say, "I still drink, but girl, I don't drink as much as I used to." That is - I'm elated. I'm elated. It's not about being perfect; it's just about progress.

Faith: Yes.

Kristen Walker: That's just amazing right there just to say, "I'm not doing what I used to," or "I noticed over the pandemic, I really got out of control, but I'm really taking notice of it and really being present in my behavior." So, that's huge to me, that's a huge, huge win.

Faith: Oh yeah, absolutely. Definitely a huge win. So, I know that you've got a new book that's out.

Kristen Walker: Yeah.

Faith: Girl, tell me this book. Tell me about the book. I want to know all about it.

Kristen Walker: So I over the pandemic, just kind of put these thoughts together. It's called more than curious. And it's just like your beginner's guide to really those first few weeks of starting to look at your relationship with alcohol or sobriety full on. What does it feel like? What are some things that you can do to kind of help you to cope and to get through those first few weeks? Because that's where it's hard, that's where the rubber meets the road and that's where it can be really troubling. It can feel very lonely. It can be very overwhelming. So I just wanted to create just something that people could kind of turn to, that's an easy read, quick read, to kind of get you over those first few weeks and kind of help you to cope and to deal with this new lifestyle. And then along with it, I wanted to add some information about journaling. It was one of those things that really helped me in the beginning and continues to help me. So I wanted to add a little bit about journaling and kind of just give you some journaling prompts to kind of help you begin that journey. So, that's where it sprung out from. It kind of sprung from the blog and it's kind of like the blog 2.0. It's kind of like an explosion from there, and it's just packaged up nicely in one nice little pretty package. So, it's just another way for me to lend a helping hand to those that are curious or starting their own journeys.

Faith: Definitely. And I think that journal prompts is like, people were like, "Oh, you know, journal prompt, you know, I can Google it." It's like, I don't think that folks understand just like the power of just a question that you never would've thought about. I mean, over the last... so I'm doing this like hundred days of self-love and optimal health and wellness. I gifted that to myself for my birthday. Yeah, girl, and it has been transformative. I've been journaling and it has been like this huge sense of self-awareness that I don't know that I was particularly ready for, but it's just like, wow. Because it's just like, it's this free flow. And it's like the things that come up that bubble up and you write through it. You're feeling it in that moment, you're writing it out, and it's like, oh my gosh. I never knew, or I never recognized that I spoke to myself like that. Or, that I thought about this situation in that way. 

And it's just like, it can be just so powerful. So, I can only imagine that the prompts that you've created, especially around one's relationship with alcohol, I'm sure that it's probably really, really good. So, I'll be sure to leave the note for that in the show notes so that people can access that as well as can access your blog. But I do have one last question for you. I know that you said one of the places in which people can start is to be in, you know, asking the question around their relationship with alcohol and then you recommended two books. But are there any other tools or resources, whether it's a podcast, a group or whatever that you would recommend for someone who wants to dig in a little bit more in depth as it relates to their sobriety and exploring it?

Kristen Walker: One group that really sticks out to me and just to fully disclose I'm actually a recovery coach with Tempest. And what I loved with Tempest - what I love about them is they take a really holistic approach.

Faith: Wait, what is Tempest?

Kristen Walker: So Tempest, it's a community that helps you kind of approach your sobriety from a holistic level. So, you're looking at relationships, you're looking at behaviors, you're looking at habits and rituals. You're looking at all these things and you get together. We have some amazing groups and some amazing discussions. And I've got a group tonight, and my Friday group is one of my favorite, favorite groups. Because I mean, it's that Friday, it's the end of the week. It's that day that most people drink the most. So we get together and just kind of go over the week and go over our plans for the weekend and any struggles or wins that we've had. It's just got a great online community. I love it because every month there's a new type of topic or a new feature that goes up every month. And I just, that... it comes from such a loving place of, it's not about all or nothing. It's really about taking this one day at a time. If something happens and you slip, just know that it's okay, look at all the sober days that you've had. It's something I'm really big on right now. Look at all the sober days that you've had compared to the days that you drink, and you you'd be surprised at how many of those days you have in your bucket. So, I really, really have loved being a partnership with them.

Faith: So Tempest?

Kristen Walker: Yes.

Faith: Okay.

Kristen Walker: Tempest, yeah. If you look Tempest Recovery, they'll pop right on up.

Faith: For those who are interested in connecting with you in, you know, whether your book or checking out your blog, how can they do so?

Kristen Walker: So you can find me on Instagram @soberbrowngirls or soberbrowngirls.com. And that's where you could find the book, you can read around in the blog. You're more than welcome to do that. I've even got a little shop there that has some kind of nice sober swag, if you will, that she can definitely - a lot of people kind of get a kick out of that. Just to help kind of normalize, you know, so much mommy wine juice mugs out there and t-shirts that kind out of normalized drinking. Well, I want to normalize sobriety and normalized recovery, normalized harm reduction. So, you know, that's out there too, so you're more than welcome to find me there too.

Faith: Well, listen, Kirsten, it has been an absolute pleasure connecting with you this Friday afternoon. It is actually raining over here as well, so it's been an absolute delight. And thank you so much for sharing your story as well as sharing your story with the world. You know, I think that it's so important, so thank you for being a part of movement.

Kristen Walker: Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. Thank you for creating this amazing platform for women. We need more of you, so much more of you in the world to really appreciate everything that you're doing. I really appreciate it.

Faith: Awesome. Thank you, Queen. Thank you.

Outro: So I hope you enjoyed this episode. And if you did, be sure to follow or subscribe to the show to make sure that you never miss a new episode. And also be sure to share the episode or podcast with another queen who might benefit. And before I go, I need your help. Please be sure to leave me a five star rating and review wherever you consume your podcast, this way more women are able to find the show and access the information that we share here. Also, if it's on your heart to buy me a coffee, any support that you're willing to provide to help me sustain this podcast is greatly appreciated. In the meantime, you can always follow us on all social media platforms at the Sista Circle Podcast, as well as via the website, thesistacirclepodcast.com. With love, Faith.